How Workbooks’ CMO and CFO collaborated to make finance an ally rather than an obstacle

When SaaS firm Workbooks launched its ‘No BS CRM’ campaign, the challenger brand made an unusually loud move for B2B software. The decision to back such a provocative idea was driven by the relationship between CMO Dan Roche and CFO Philip Wray.

As part of a panel discussion at this year’s Festival of Marketing (2 October), Roche admitted the first step to winning over finance is building credibility. “The first thing I wanted to show Phil was that I could stick to budget and not throw surprises at him. You can talk about metrics later, but it starts with proving you’re not the guy who blows money on balloons.”

For Wray, that predictability was crucial. “The worst thing my team can have is an invoice they weren’t expecting. Build trust through transparency and then you can have open conversations about risk.”

With that foundation in place, Roche was ready to bring forward a bolder idea. Workbooks faces the challenge of competing in a market with thousands of CRM providers, most of which are overshadowed by big players like Salesforce and HubSpot.

Roche worked with its agency on a number of concepts, one of which featured dogs to highlight its position as an underdog, the other embraced a phrase used by its customers: “no BS”.

He first secured backing from the CEO, then took the idea to the board. Wray remembers the meeting clearly: “Dan showed the safe play with the dogs, then the bold option. Everyone loved the bold one.”

He continued: “At that point, my role wasn’t to argue – it was to check compliance and budget. Once those boxes were ticked, it was an easy yes.”

That yes was made easier because the spend was already allocated. “It wasn’t a case of needing more money,” Wray added.

Even so, the campaign tested nerves. While the campaign drove an immediate uplift in awareness – one of the core objectives – the board accepted it would not deliver short-term revenue. But as the months went by, with little pipeline uplift, Wray admitted to some unease: “Every month I was sat there thinking, it still hasn’t ticked up. Other indicators were rising, but the pipeline wasn’t there.”

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Eventually, it arrived. “This month was the first meeting where the pressure moved from Dan to sales,” Wray said.

Roche also said he credits finance with helping shield marketing during that period: “Sales can be overbearing, but if you can say, ‘Let’s look at the numbers’, it changes the conversation.”

That ability to act as referee has made finance an ally rather than an obstacle. Wray agreed: “If you’ve built trust, finance will have your back. Keep us close, no surprises, and we can balance the pressure.”

One key change was redefining what success looked like. When Roche joined, marketing was judged on MQLs. “I could have boosted MQLs, but it wouldn’t have moved the dial,” he said.

Roche persuaded leadership to measure pipeline contribution instead. Wray said he welcomed the shift: “We’re flexible on KPIs. As long as the trend is right, that’s what matters.”

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The No BS CRM campaign gave Workbooks a set of proof points: short-term website spikes, medium-term industry recognition, such as winning Marketing Week readers’ campaign of the year in 2024, and long-term brand-led conversations that turned into pipeline.

“We’re getting through more doors now,” Wray said. “People already know who we are before we speak to them.”

Their working relationship is reinforced outside the boardroom. Both spoke about the importance of personal rapport, from football chat to shared experiences on a company charity trek.

“You expect finance people to be robotic, but when you see the human side, it changes how you collaborate,” Roche said.

Both agreed that having that common ground also helps when inevitable conflicts between marketing and finance arise.

“If you can find something in common, it makes the professional relationship stronger. It also helps when disagreements come up – you can have open conversations without derailing things,” said Wray.

Neither thinks marketers need to become accountants to win over finance, but both stressed the importance of speaking the board’s language.

“You don’t need to know accruals and prepayments,” Wray said. “Just understand how KPIs are calculated.”

Roche added: “Learning how the business runs makes you a more effective leader. You don’t want to be seen as the fluffy marketing guy.”

As for the campaign, Roche believes it still has mileage. “Marketers get bored quickly, but most people haven’t seen it. It cuts through, so we’ll keep using it.”

Wray was more cautious: “There is a shelf life. It’s done what it needed to, it set the foundation. The challenge now is how Dan builds on it.”