CMO to NED: Former marketers on the transition to non-exec

Marketers bring a “huge number of skills” to boards, according to former Procter & Gamble marketing director turned non-exec director Roisin Donnelly.

“I’ve done nine boards in nine years, which was not my career plan when I started. I’ve done a lot more finance than I planned. A lot more M&A than I planned, a lot more selling companies than I ever planned at the beginning,” said Donnelly, speaking at last week’s Festival of Marketing (2 October).

“It’s been a fantastic journey and you can bring lots of different marketing skills.”

Having joined Procter & Gamble (P&G) in the 1990s, she balanced her 30-year marketing career with board roles at the Advertising Standards Authority and CEW, the professional organisation for the beauty sector.

Stepping into a portfolio career nine years ago, Donnelly’s non-exec CV includes Just Eat, Holland & Barrett, Bourne Leisure and HomeServe. Her current directorships span NatWest Group, Sage, Premier Foods and IAB UK, while she also serves as board trustee of the British Heart Foundation.

She was joined on stage by fellow non-exec Emma Woods. After nearly 20 years in marketing at Unilever and senior roles at PizzaExpress and Merlin Entertainments, Woods took on her first NED position at the Gym Group while serving as Wagamama CEO.  

Committing to a full-time portfolio career four years ago, she joined nutrition business Huel as a non-exec director. Woods is currently a non-exec at Goldonder AB, the parent company behind the ABBA Voyage experience, and retail estate firm GPE, as well as chair of Mexican food chain Tortilla and female focused wellness brand Ancient + Brave.

Based on their years’ of experience, Donnelly and Woods shared key advice for marketers thinking of making the transition to non-exec.

Start early

Balancing non-exec directorships with a full-time job was “utterly brilliant learning”,  said Donnelly.

“In the day job at P&G I was looking at big brands, big budgets. In my night job, I was looking at tiny companies and really helping them. So, no matter what you do, roll up your sleeves early and start learning,” she advised.

Woods agreed that starting early is a good move, especially as it helps you get your name in the running for future roles. When she started eight years ago, boards were looking for “classic skills” in terms of understanding consumer and digital, although this has evolved with time.

“It’s really important as you start to think about being a NED to work out what you can bring to a board, because it’s getting much more specific in terms of boards wanting skills and also what sectors you want to work in,” said Woods.

“Certainly, for me, I have to really believe in the business that I’m working for and then align that with how can I help? Can I bring my skills? Can I learn something? Because each board is very different.”

Woods has a one-page CV for her NED work, featuring her job highlights and the characteristics she brings to a board. Part of her appeal is offering challenge.

“I’m on a Swedish board and I’m interviewing for another European board, and they’re not used to people challenging and actually that’s a skill they’re really keen to have, provided it’s done in the right way,” she noted.

“Try and work out in your own mind what you might bring.”

Getting the right fit

When she started her NED journey, Donnelly recalled businesses were looking for a “team of stars” with specialist skills, while today the focus is shifting to generalists with wider experience.

For Donnelly, culture is “hugely important”. She recalled being interviewed for two roles with FTSE 100 companies in gentlemen’s clubs in London by the chair and CEO, but not being invited to the office.

“I deliberately went 90 minutes early [to the office], sat in reception and listened to people. I went to different loos and I listened to what people were chatting about. I just knew there was no culture fit with what I was looking for,” said Donnelly.

“You know the purpose was fine in black and white, but they weren’t walking the talk, they weren’t living it.”

Woods agreed culture is crucial, especially for marketers who are used to working in great teams. Her advice is to ask who else is on the board, as well as make sure you could envisage having a strong working relationship with the chair and CEO.

As Donnelly pointed out, you can’t really resign from a listed board.

“You’re signing up ideally for nine years or six years, so it is a long-term commitment. You’ve got to love the business. You’ve got to love the team and you’ve got to believe in the purpose,” she noted.

Landing a role

Most of Donnelly’s non-exec roles have come via headhunters, although personal recommendations play a key role.

“It’s easier to get a NED job when you are a NED, because you’ve joined the club,” she stated.

That said, Donnelly insisted it’s essential anyone interested in becoming a NED does the due diligence, because headhunters don’t share the full story.

Of course, the process doesn’t always run smoothly. Woods recalled having nine interviews for one job only to find out two months later she didn’t get the position. Being ghosted by headhunters is not unusual.

Donnelly has even had recruiters contact her about jobs that didn’t exist, using fake conversations to pitch for business in the hope of placing executive roles in the firms she works with.

There’s a really important shift – and I found it really hard – that you go from being centre of the pitch to side of the pitch.

Emma Woods

Luck also has a part to play, said Woods, who urged marketers to apply for lots of roles given the competitive market.

“To get to where we are now as non-execs is really quite hard, but you’ve got to think about what your ‘why?’ is. The other ‘why?’ is I wasn’t convinced there were many marketing leadership jobs over 50,” she recalled.

“I was approaching that age and just thought I’m not sure that I’ll be very good as a consultant. So, there was a ‘why?’ for me of how am I going to reinvent myself?”

Standing out with your point of difference is crucial, says Donnelly. Storytelling helped her land an early NED role at holiday park group Bourne Leisure.

“They said ‘We remembered you’ because my mum worked at Butlin’s and she was a red coat. She was trying to decide between that and being a primary school teacher. They said: ‘We remembered you because you told us a story,’” Donnelly recalled.

She asked for a three-week induction to get to know the customers and staff, working in holiday parks, chopping veg in the kitchen and even working as a children’s entertainer.

“I wanted to talk to real colleagues, because you go on a board and you want to see some colleagues, and they introduce you to the superstars. Let’s just have a focus group of the next exec, brilliant strategic people. I want to meet real people who make up the company,” Donnelly said.

Making the transition

After making the leap to full-time NED, Woods gave herself 18 months to make it work. In that time she was offered a CEO role and nearly took it as she felt “lost” in the transition.

“When you are a marketing leader, especially in great branded organisations, you really are centre of the pitch. You’ve got big teams, you’re working with agencies and making things happen,” she explained.

“There’s a really important shift – and I found it really hard – that you go from being centre of the pitch to side of the pitch, and being quite thoughtful about how you support other people to do stuff. Particularly as you won’t necessarily be a subject matter expert.”

‘Nose in, fingers out’: Why becoming a non-exec helps marketers ‘join the dots’

The rewards also change. Whereas a CMO can enjoy the “immediate satisfaction” of helping their team develop, for a NED it might only be after three or four years they realise their impact.

While marketers are used to providing solutions, for non-execs the focus is on “nudging” people to improve performance. It’s a “leadership muscle” you get better at flexing by learning from other board members, Woods added.

“Being a non-exec is very like being the parent of a teenager,” Donnelly agreed. “You don’t tell them what to do. You just ask very intelligent questions.”

It is also important not to become pigeonholed, she added, especially when headhunters want to put you in a box.

“They want not just a square peg for a square hole, but a square peg who has worked on this category for 19 years. Has worked in these countries, has got these skills. If you stay in your box, you’re really limiting yourself,” Donnelly added.

Job description vs reality

On paper, the job is to steer the long-term health of the company, looking after the shareholders’ wealth and investment. This includes ensuring there’s a great strategy and team in place, and a CEO succession plan.

“Then there’s 100 things that nobody ever wrote down and there’s all the crisis management, which you don’t expect,” Donnelly explained.

“There is the brief from the headhunters, which says something like 14 days and then my experience is you double it. If you want to roll up your sleeves, understand the business, mentor some people and really get stuck in, then you treble it.”

Non-execs should also expect the unexpected and realise this is definitely “not a part-time job”. Sometimes the challenge is considerable.

When the Just Eat CEO left during Donnelly’s tenure on the board, he was replaced on an interim basis by the chair. Two weeks later the former chair had a headache and found he couldn’t read. By week five he had passed away.

NED to chair

Making the transition from non-exec to chair is another challenge, especially for women, said Woods. Describing it as a “ridiculously hard club to join”, she is a big champion of female chairs.

“Private equity don’t like female chairs, because they need to have people who have done transactions before, so you end up with this circle of finance directors who have done transactions moving around,” said Woods.

“I’m a chair of the UK’s fastest growing wellness businesses, Ancient + Brave and I’m only a chair of that business, because the female founder said: ‘This is a business all about wellness for women, I insist on a female chair.’”

Being a non-exec is very like being the parent of a teenager. You don’t tell them what to do. You just ask very intelligent questions.

Roisin Donnelly

She also advised existing NEDs not to let their ego push them towards “status jobs” that might not be a good fit.

“I’m not a FTSE 100 chair, but actually I don’t want to be a FTSE 100 chair because I’m not somebody who wants to go in and mark homework. I want to get stuck in. I want to be a growth chair,” said Woods.

Of course, becoming a non-exec is not for everyone, Donnelly acknowledged. She recalled a former boss who spent a year on the Morrisons board before going back to being a CEO.

While Donnelly spends lots of time coaching and mentoring her CEO and execs, it’s important to realise you don’t have the same kind of influence.

“You don’t have daily numbers unless you’re a very sad non-exec and you’re not an expert, because you’re working across different things. But at last I have time and I have a lot of fun, and I learn about new things,” she explained.